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Tr250 Tr6 1968 -1971 EFI manifold

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  • Tr250 Tr6 1968 -1971 EFI manifold

    If you buy directly through the forums and we don't have to deal with eBay fees then I will take $1350+shipping.

    The link to the eBay listing with pictures and more info:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/23402456182...4AAOSwACNgrUH1

    I am extremely hesitant to post on here to begin with so can we please keep the focus on the sale of the manifold.


  • #2
    That’s very nice! I have a later head and not enough money so I’m out but it looks very impressive!

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Charlie! If you ever want one just message me and I can make a wideport version.

      Regards

      Comment


      • JochemsTR
        JochemsTR commented
        Editing a comment
        Great Job! I sent you a message

    • #4
      That's pretty slick..... what do you use for engine management? Can you post all the pictures of it in here ..... the eBay listing ended.
      1975 Mimosa with a few upgrades/mods:
      Patton TBI
      HVDA Toyota 5 speed
      Goodparts Nissan Diff
      Goodparts CVJs
      AAW Wire Harness
      Miata Seats
      Boyd Welding Custom 15 gallon aluminum gas tank

      Comment


      • #5
        This is very cool. can you PM me your contact details so I can have them for future reference? Would be a great project once I get moved.

        Comment


        • #6
          You should consider producing a kit with a preprogrammed ms3, cable actuation for the TB and a solution for timing - I’m assuming you have a crank trigger for timing.
          If it were even a little more plug and play I’m sure you’d get even more takers.

          Also fwiw I used 19lb injectors and it was good up to the 168hp - engine dyno - level. No idea of the relative cost differential, it’s been years since I had a 6 with a stock motor.
          One final question, what is that TB off of just out of interest. ?
          I'm really not that interesting...

          Comment


          • #7
            rjb2968 , I sent you a PM.
            Flying Dutchman drives: TR6 - 1973 - 56/11 - CF1xxxxUO - J-OD - Kent 280° - EFI EMU Black - Phoenix - 205/60 on 7x16

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by alana View Post
              You should consider producing a kit with a preprogrammed ms3, cable actuation for the TB and a solution for timing - I’m assuming you have a crank trigger for timing.
              If it were even a little more plug and play I’m sure you’d get even more takers.

              Also fwiw I used 19lb injectors and it was good up to the 168hp - engine dyno - level. No idea of the relative cost differential, it’s been years since I had a 6 with a stock motor.
              One final question, what is that TB off of just out of interest. ?
              100% Agree - looking into Patton TBI because, among other things, it is turnkey. However, the original look and feel of the PI version would be the hands-down winner...
              Joe Murawski

              '74 w/bits of '72
              ... a perpetual work-in-progress...

              Comment


              • #9
                You should consider producing a kit with a preprogrammed ms3, cable actuation for the TB and a solution for timing -
                preprogrammed ms3?? With Fuel Table, Enrichments, Ignition ????

                Sounds good......................won't work.

                The slightest changes in engine config requires new adjustments of parameters. With such a plug-and-play solution you maybe reach 80% of it's potential.
                I work now with EV14 injectors....major difference to its predecessor.

                For the money spend on MS3...there are better ECUs out there.

                Jochem
                Flying Dutchman drives: TR6 - 1973 - 56/11 - CF1xxxxUO - J-OD - Kent 280° - EFI EMU Black - Phoenix - 205/60 on 7x16

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by JochemsTR View Post

                  preprogrammed ms3?? With Fuel Table, Enrichments, Ignition ????

                  Sounds good......................won't work.

                  The slightest changes in engine config requires new adjustments of parameters. With such a plug-and-play solution you maybe reach 80% of it's potential.
                  I work now with EV14 injectors....major difference to its predecessor.

                  For the money spend on MS3...there are better ECUs out there.

                  Jochem
                  I’d love to see a better ECU for the $.
                  Do pray tell.
                  I'm really not that interesting...

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    You may want to differ between what is needed for our cars and what is being offered.

                    Needed:
                    go ahead and buy yourself a Speeduino. For around $200 you are set. Get yourself a decent housing and connectors since all of these DIY ECUs including MS are not considered to be "automotive" standard. For my test bench I stripped an old Bosch ECU and replaced the internals with the Speeduino board. New Automotive connectors and done.

                    Offered:
                    an assembled MS3 costst about $762, still no automotive standard. No Knock, no Barometric pressure sensor, no 15A Ignition Outputs, no VSS, no dedicated Lambda 4.2 or 4.9 etc. etc. This all needs to be done with extra components and work arounds.

                    My car runs on Ecumaster Black ECU. Few $ more but worth it. The Classic version is actually only 100$ more than MS3+. Housing, Connectors all upto standard. No EMC issues. This is a professional brand used in racing and tuning scene.

                    I am sure this debate can go either way, and should not ruin OPs Thread. I have seen enough cars driving with MS2, MS3 and Ecumaster. They all get the job done, but as I said, as expensive the MS3+ is, I rather pay a few dollars more, and get myself a professional version in lieu of an ECU made in someone's basement.

                    Jochem
                    Last edited by JochemsTR; 06-28-2021, 01:39 AM.
                    Flying Dutchman drives: TR6 - 1973 - 56/11 - CF1xxxxUO - J-OD - Kent 280° - EFI EMU Black - Phoenix - 205/60 on 7x16

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      I see the Black running $1100 and MS3x at $760. Wiring plugs, harnesses, etc about the same. Agreed about the ignition support, MS3x would need an external module to run individual coils or a coil pack. As my car had a legacy of MegaJolt EDIS, with all the attendant mounts, wiring, sensors etc, it wasn’t needed. Both appear to have on the fly baro correction, and both have good MAP sensors. As for wide band, I have settled on a 4.9 LSU ADV, which the black doesn’t support. So, there again, I have a 2 legacy wide band controllers from Ecotrons and the MS3x works with that input. Knock is another issue, I have the built in knock module but the black might be better. I certainly hope the software and documentation is better. So, the largest differential is the casing. That comes down to where you plan on putting all this stuff. If in the engine bay, then black. If in the passenger footwell, no advantage either way. In my case, my goal was to have a”clean” as possible installation in the engine compartment as possible. So, all the stuff is in the footwell, out of sight. I will put my engine compartment up to any out there for appearance, tidiness, and overall professional installation. As for support and fabrication, Matt Kramer at DIY Autotune has been excellent for all my questions with my MS2 and now, MS3x. And, the boards for both of these are very nice, well made SMT boards. The harnesses are of equal quality. Labeling them a garage product is, in my opinion, ill informed. There are many many racing installations of MS. So, it’s whatever floats your boat.
                      Last edited by HuhReally; 06-28-2021, 03:08 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Hi all,

                        I am not really active on this forum. Sorry for the late response. The best way to contact me is via email : [email protected].

                        As mentioned before it is very hard to offer this as a complete kit including the ECU because there are so many ways to do it. The differences in the fuel system (in tank or inline pump), the needs of the user (batch fire, semi sequential, sequential and whether its fuel only or fuel and spark), budget and what not. The Patton solution is nice but consider it is using a near 30 year old computer for a GM truck with the injectors placed in the carbs, it is essentially a computer controlled carb. There is no wideband sensor input on it either meaning it's really just a feedback sensor dummy light style configuration.

                        I have assisted at this point nearly 40 people on installing these on TR6's, GT6's, TR250's, Spitfires and a some other MISC saloons. Most people want the look, throttle response and reliability of the EFI so they go with the Microsquirt V3 in batch fire injection mode and use the distributor to control the timing. The microsquirt simply picks up the tach signal from the distributor to fire the injectors, it is not the most efficient way to fuel inject a car however it is the simplest, most straight forward and a giant leap over carbs. The throttle response and economy goes through the roof and the car just idles cleaner, starts easier and feels faster and healthier.

                        Regards,
                        Ramin

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Ramin and I may disagree on many details, but he makes a very valid point about the TBI system. And the same applies to EDIS. Future availability of these electronics. Can you get NOS? Do you want to rely on pick n pull for these items? My neighbor’s phone is ringing off the hook for his system to replace a 20 year old GM EFI computer used in marine V8’s. Because, they are not to be found.

                          The second valid point is real time feed back tuning for your exact engine. That requires a wideband and software running while operating for dialing in the VE tables. And if the ECU permits PID real time AFR adjustments, so much the better. Does your engine have the same piston size, the same valve size and seat grind, the same cam, the same rocker ratio, the same porting, port matching, etc? If not, your Volumetric Efficiency is different and needs different fueling.

                          Third point tangentially touched upon is the OEM intake manifold. If Ramin did a CFD flow analysis on it, I bet it would show wildly uneven flow to the cylinders. And widely uneven AFR’s too. His manifold, like my manifold, have very very slight differences between cylinders and even less variation with fueling. Two points not touched upon but equally important in this are 1. Spraying fuel down the intake port on the backside of a hot intake valve yields excellent atomization of the fuel and 2. the TBI system will have huge amounts of wall wetting effects of the OEM manifold. Wall wetting effects are notoriously non linear and respond to many different factors.

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                          Tr250 Tr6 1968 -1971 EFI manifold

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