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Innovate LC2 Wide Band AFR Gauge and Sensor

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  • Innovate LC2 Wide Band AFR Gauge and Sensor

    As part of my recent engine rebuild, I opted to include an Air Fuel Ratio sensor to help me tune my triple Weber carb setup that I've included in the build.

    After some research and talking with a few other users, I opted for the Innovate LC2 Wide Band AFR Gauge and Sensor. Purchased off Amazon and had it in a couple days.

    For the sensor bung, I had it welded into the collector pipe of my header just below my starter. Pretty good place to put it as I can access it from below the car. No real access from above unless I pull the starter and I dread the idea of doing that right now.

    I'm currently thinking of this as a tuning aid and not necessarily a permanent addition to the car, so I wanted my installation to be removable. To that end, I made a black vinyl covered plate the size of the ashtray with a wooden plug underneath the size of the ashtray. A small aluminum bracket holds the AFR gauge in place. The controller and associated wiring is mounted above the passenger footwell - the wiring passed through one of the grommets on that side of the car.

    To power the setup, I elected to use a relay under the dash on the passenger side. The relay is triggered by the green circuit and fed power by a fused wire straight off the starter battery wire main plug. This keeps the amperage of the AFR sensor away from the fuses that control my blinkers, OD, dash, etc. Green circuit powers on when the key comes on so this powers up the AFR gauge when I start the car.

    Of course, I had to pick a green gauge face to match my '73 gauges!

    It works quite well so far. At present, I can tell that my Weber settings for hard acceleration are pretty good if not perfect, however, I can also tell that I don't have my idle and cruise circuits right yet. I was able to try another set of jets I had and while it was quickly apparent that the car did not run right with them, the AFR told me the car was running terribly lean - I went the wrong way with my jet adjustment.

    Is this the right setup for a stock car? Maybe for a gauge junky. However, for someone making modifications, I think this is definite a great way to set up your car.
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    Last edited by oppositelocksmith; 11-25-2020, 10:11 PM.
    1973 TR6 – BRG with beige interior, custom LED lighting
    Hardtop, OD, Rollbar, 15”Koenigs
    Bored, balanced and polished motor with PI cam, hi-comp head, triple DCOE's
    Header, custom exhaust, custom alternator, e-fan
    Lowered, poly suspension, Konis and rear anti roll-bar
    www.coventrysfinest.blogspot.com

  • #2
    I don't know but I never really caught on to that idea, myself, Jeremy.
    That single instrument indicates a cumulative effect, but not what each of the carbs individually might be contributing to the AFR ?

    Driving a 1973 TR6
    Doing ZS carb repairs
    email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Agreed, this does measure only a cumulative effect of all carbs on the car. You could definitely have one lean and one rich and it theoretically would average it out. However, this is how AFR’s work on basically all modern cars and trucks.

      I like it because it is similar technology to what we designed into the engines at my previous employer.

      I had 30 years of experience tuning Strombergs and similar type carbs. Tuning these Webers has definitely taken me out my comfort zone and I think this will be a good tool to help me do the job.
      1973 TR6 – BRG with beige interior, custom LED lighting
      Hardtop, OD, Rollbar, 15”Koenigs
      Bored, balanced and polished motor with PI cam, hi-comp head, triple DCOE's
      Header, custom exhaust, custom alternator, e-fan
      Lowered, poly suspension, Konis and rear anti roll-bar
      www.coventrysfinest.blogspot.com

      Comment


      • #4
        My old LC-2 had a logging function that was very useful. My caution is don’t run 106 octane fuel through it . The lead toasted both of my LC-2 ‘s and the the replacement sensors never quite calibrated up well. I have had a 14.7 system, pretty good but no gauge, strictly a 0-5v output for a fuel computer. I’ve also had a Ballenger 5000 system with the fancy NTK sensor. Pretty good but I have standardized on the Ecotrons ADV. Most use the old Bosch sensor, some can come with the NTK, and the last uses a later Bosch sensor.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by oppositelocksmith View Post
          Agreed, this does measure only a cumulative effect of all carbs on the car. You could definitely have one lean and one rich and it theoretically would average it out. However, this is how AFR’s work on basically all modern cars and trucks.
          .
          But it does something entirely different with the data it collects than just make a display on the dash..
          Driving a 1973 TR6
          Doing ZS carb repairs
          email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Another way to give some individual cylinder insight into what's going on, (although not stand alone conclusive), is to take a infrared digital thermometer and shoot each of the header tubes at the same distance from the engine when it is warmed up. A leaner mixture should show hotter and rich will show a little cooler. Be sure to drape some aluminum foil to protect the #1 tube from the breeze of the fan, otherwise it will always show erroneously cooler.

            Spark plug reading is probably easiest and most reliable indicator, IMHO

            Cheers,

            Kevin
            76 TR6 CF58170UO (The Lady)
            72 TR6 CC80068UO (The Slut)
            68 TR250 CD4893L (The Mistress)

            Comment


            • #7
              On the subject of temperature, what's the temperature required to get an accurate reading with a wide band AFR ?
              Little as I know, I have read that the temperature at the sensor is a critical ingredient for accuracy.
              Driving a 1973 TR6
              Doing ZS carb repairs
              email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

              Comment


              • #8
                I used the Innovate O2 gauge/sensor (left) with great success tuning the Six engine with the triple ZS's and then the triple Mikuni's. The tool assisted in dialing in the engine. I would then go to reading the spark plugs for fine carb adjustments. It is a great carb tuning tool.

                When I converted to the Fuel Injected Supercharged Ecotec LSJ I added the Aeroforce Interceptor OBD2 data stream gauge (right). This gauge pretty much carries the day now, a real time OBD2 scan readout, reporting on just about everything you need to know at the moment it is happening; the list of available data is exhausting.
                • RPM
                • MPH
                • Intake Air Temperature (post Intercooler)
                • Ambient Air Temperature (pre Intercooler)
                • Engine Coolant Temperature
                • Exhaust Gas Temperature (PCM Calculated)
                • Transmission Temp. (auto trans)
                • Manifold Pressure (vacuum/boost) displayed in PSI
                • Fuel Temperature
                • Battery Voltage
                • Battery Temp
                • Injector Pulse Width in msec.
                • Injector Duty Cycle (%)
                • Air Flow Rate into engine
                • Long Term Fuel Trim
                • Short Term Fuel Trim
                • O2 Sensor Voltage
                • Barometric Pressure
                • Ignition Advance
                • Base Spark
                • PCM Spark Adjust
                • Fuel Status (open/closed loop)
                • Wastegate Solenoid Duty Cycle (%)
                • Knock Retard
                • Knock Sensor Raw Voltage
                • Throttle Position Percentage
                • Throttle Position Sensor Raw Volts
                • Calculated Net Horsepower
                • Engine Load
                • Transmission Slip
                • Current Transmission Gear
                • Torque Delivered to Transmission
                • Torque Converter lockup status
                • Brake pressure
                • Brake Booster Travel
                • Steering Angle
                • Non-driven Wheel Speed
                • Lateral G's
                • Yaw
                • Fuel economy (instantaneous and average)
                • P-ratio - pressure ratio MAP/Barometer
                I have not un-layered most of these and not at all sure about the "Yaw" but it is listed. The Innovate tool is there but not as necessary as before. I still glance at it.
                Best Therapy
                http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/AlbertGary.htm
                Zoom Zoom

                Comment


                • #9
                  So you get a A/F reading of the exhaust from a sensor....then you revert to the old school technique of reading the plugs for fine tuning of your carbs ?....


                  Last edited by poolboy; 11-26-2020, 02:00 PM.
                  Driving a 1973 TR6
                  Doing ZS carb repairs
                  email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by poolboy View Post
                    So you get a A/F reading of the exhaust from a sensor....then you revert to the old school technique of reading the plugs for fine tuning of your carbs ?....

                    Yep, that is my approach. The Innovate was very helpful in assisting me in jetting and setting up the carbs. You put it nicely stating "That single instrument indicates a cumulative effect, but not what each of the carbs individually might be contributing to the AFR." The gauge as a tool just steers you to the sweet AFR area with much more direction and focus. Then once there you are able to narrow your tune accordingly attending to the mating carbs; the fewer carbs per cylinder or intake runner the better.

                    For example the pictures below shows my plugs of three very impressive looking Mikuni 45's on the Goodparts tri manifold; far too much carburetor requiring down jetting. But as you see, most plugs are just right while #3 is lean and is on the same carb as #4 which is about right.. However the timing and heat range is pretty much on point on all.

                    I might add that IMHO the Mikunis are the best carbs I have had of the dual down draft Weber's, triple ZS's all on the same modifications platform. If anyone is considering a carburetor upgrade I would recommend two Mikuni 42's on the stock manifold, and for performance a nice cam of your choice and triple Mikuni 42's on a Goodparts tri manifold. BTW, the carburetor synchronize tool is a big help also.

                    YMMV.
                    Last edited by TRick6; 11-27-2020, 10:13 AM.
                    Best Therapy
                    http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/AlbertGary.htm
                    Zoom Zoom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by poolboy View Post
                      So you get a A/F reading of the exhaust from a sensor....then you revert to the old school technique of reading the plugs for fine tuning of your carbs ?....

                      Or, as the saying goes, "Stone tools and knives....."
                      Personally, not a big fan of OBDII technology, or digital instruments for that matter. But, if one goes for an engine swap for a unit with an ECU, I can understand the use for such devices.
                      CF1634U+O Pimento/Chestnut
                      2nd owner, since 1975
                      Now in Fair Oaks, CA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by poolboy View Post
                        So you get a A/F reading of the exhaust from a sensor....then you revert to the old school technique of reading the plugs for fine tuning of your carbs ?....

                        One big advantage about using the 02 sensor/A/F monitor is the instant readout as to what's going down the exhaust pipe. Both at idle speed and throughout the engine's operating range.

                        I'll try answering your post #7 in the near future.

                        Dick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As much as I value the vacuum gauge, one reason I don't have one in the cockpit is because I don't need the distraction. That needle moves every time the throttle moves...I imagine the A/F meter would be just as distracting....my reactions aren't as fast as they used to be so I need to keep my eyes on the road most of the time.
                          Beside that, what you gonna do about it...without a computer you can't constantly be changing the mixture to get that perfect ratio reading on the instrument.
                          Driving a 1973 TR6
                          Doing ZS carb repairs
                          email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by poolboy View Post
                            As much as I value the vacuum gauge, one reason I don't have one in the cockpit is because I don't need the distraction. That needle moves every time the throttle moves...I imagine the A/F meter would be just as distracting....my reactions aren't as fast as they used to be so I need to keep my eyes on the road most of the time.
                            Beside that, what you gonna do about it...without a computer you can't constantly be changing the mixture to get that perfect ratio reading on the instrument.
                            A properly matched needle/jet does not vary the readout all that much as the engine goes thru it's acceleration phases. i.e. it does not blink all over the place as some would believe. Having had mine in operation for about 30 years, I found it indispensable when making changes to different cams and such. I am not recommending this for stock or near stock engines, as the factory setup was close enough to pass emissions testing and give good performance.

                            Dick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by poolboy View Post
                              As much as I value the vacuum gauge, one reason I don't have one in the cockpit is because I don't need the distraction. That needle moves every time the throttle moves...I imagine the A/F meter would be just as distracting....my reactions aren't as fast as they used to be so I need to keep my eyes on the road most of the time.
                              Beside that, what you gonna do about it...without a computer you can't constantly be changing the mixture to get that perfect ratio reading on the instrument.
                              I think that’s why Jeremy has made his removable after tuning....

                              Cheers,
                              Tush
                              81 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, 81 Triumph TR8, 1973 Ford Capri
                              73 Triumph TR6 CF4874UO, 68 Triumph TR250 CD5228LO
                              62 Triumph TR4 CT6716LO, 60 Triumph TR3A TS69891LO
                              60 Triumph TR3A TS64870LO, 59 Triumph TR3A TS44836LO
                              https://www.youtube.com/user/cheftush

                              Comment

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